Flash Photgraphy

[carter]

Many years ago, when I started dabling with Photography, I bought a large flash unit for the hotshoe of my SLR. I found this unit made the camera difficult to handle.
I have recently got back into photography and bought a Canon EOS 5 MK2 hoping that the fast ISO speeds would negate my need for Flash.
I like taking sport pictures, often in low light, and although the camera has the capability, using the high ISO to give fast shutter speeds gives me a lot of noise.
So here I am needing a flash again.
Any advice please, on what would be best to purchase.
Thanks in advance. Carter

[ALDP]

580EXII or 480EXII

But if you're getting lots of noise on a 5DMKII you are either:

- using it at the very extermes of the ISO range, OR
- not metering correctly (you can get very clean files from 5DMKI or MKII by metering to the right)

Can you show some examples?

[carter]

Hi, thanks for replying,
Yes, I have found I need to use the ISO extremes i.e. 6400, hence I need (reluctantly) to resort to flash.
The EX580 looks good but will it make the camera awkward, being attached to the top of the camera via the hotshoe ?
I like the idea of the flash being completly compatable with the camera but was thinking that for ease of use, tha type of flash I have seen that come with a grip might be good, but I know nothing about these units.
Carter

[carter]

P.S. what do you mean by 'metering to the right' ?

[Cornzee]

Flash during sport? Really?
Am I just being ignorant guys...?
Boxing, yeah sure, I use flash for ameteur events but other than that, surely not.
Especially when you're using a camera such as the MarkII.

Either your not metering right or your conditions have been very dark.

Metering, as in what you're shooting at, speed, aperture, iso etc.

If you're shooting at F11 most of the time for instance... it would explain quite a lot.

Just to make sure, you should be shooting at a large aperture, fast shutter 1/100sec min, 1/500 sec and upwards ideal, and low-mid range iso (200-800 I would suggest, 400 being ideal).

I think thats about right anyway... correct me if im wrong anyone else.

Hope this helps.

[carter]

I shoot motorcycles in trials events. Mostley these events are held in woods which are very dark (for photography anyway).
I use my lens at it's widest aperture F4, I spot meter the subject, and still need the highest iso i.e. 6400, I even tried the iso expansion H1 and H2 but the noise level was even worse ?(as expected)
I am a bit concerned about using flash as it may 'blind' the rider if he's looking towards the camera/flash. Is there a sport photographer out there that can tell me if this could be a problem ?
Carter

[ALDP]

By metering to the right I mean that you slightly over-expose the image compared to what your camera would otherwise select, by half a stop or so. This massively reduces noise in 5d images.

Also - have you tried printing any of your images with what you consider to be high amounts of noise? If not, you'll find a real difference between what you see on your computer screen in terms of noise versus what you get in print.

I am not a sports photographer - but shooting at ISO6400 & F4, you are either in a cave ;-) or having to keep the shutter speed very high to stop motion blur. We regularly shoot our 5Ds at ISO1000 1/80th F2.8 to F4 & get lovely results without noise being an issue, so your 5d MkII should definitely be giving you decent files at this higher ISO.

With respect to using the flash making the camera unwiedly - personally I'd say less so than one that requires a grip. But if you find it really so, then get the flash off camera & mounted on a stand & trigger via pocket wizards or the like. Am guessing you are in a fairly static position at these events? If not, you can buy brackets that attach to your camera & position the flash either above or to the left of the camera & connect to it via an off camera cord.

Hope that helps.

[.Ray]

I'm pretty sure the 5D max out at 3200 iso, so doesn't need to be in a cave to get that dark.

Though I don't use one nor fancy one, you could try one of those flash brackets that keep the flash over the camera at all times which might help the balance esp in portrait.

Noise is found in the shadow areas, so by nudging the exposure up a little, you reduce the amount of shadow area, which means less area can be noisy. If you shoot raw then you shouldn't lose any significant details in the highlights if any.

[ALDP]

Hi Ray - the 5d does, but the 5D MKII doesn't - it has a much higher ISO range - hence the comment about the cave (in jest) but more importantly re: keeping shutter speed higher.

[carter]

Higher shutter speed needed, but low light conditions. Interesting about the overexposing to reduce noise, thanks guys.
Have ordered a 580ex and will get the bracket mentioned if needed.
thanks again,
carter

[.Ray]

Hi Ray - the 5d does, but the 5D MKII doesn't - it has a much higher ISO range - hence the comment about the cave (in jest) but more importantly re: keeping shutter speed higher.

Ah, mis-read the original post, didn't see the mk2 bit.

[.Ray]

Higher shutter speed needed, but low light conditions. Interesting about the overexposing to reduce noise, thanks guys.
Have ordered a 580ex and will get the bracket mentioned if needed.
thanks again,
carter

I'm not keen on a big flash bracket, they look bit unwieldy to me, I suggest you try one out before buying.

Is there any chance of using flash off camera? That will solve the balance issue and should give you far better lighting.

[ALDP]

One question I forgot to ask: what are the other photographers covering these events using / doing? There must be others around?

[carter]

Is there any chance of using flash off camera? That will solve the balance issue and should give you far better lighting.[/QUOTE]



How does that work ? do you buy some sort of stand for the flash, then run a lead to the camera ?

[carter]

One question I forgot to ask: what are the other photographers covering these events using / doing? There must be others around?

I have only just started going to these amature events, and not seen anyone else with a SLR in action. Your right though, perhaps a trip to a major competition and find a pro to see how he/she handles it, is needed.

[ALDP]

Is there any chance of using flash off camera? That will solve the balance issue and should give you far better lighting.



How does that work ? do you buy some sort of stand for the flash, then run a lead to the camera ?[/QUOTE]

Yes - the flash is on a stand or nailed to a tree - just has to be separated from your camera;-)

You trigger the flash using one of three methods:
1 - canon has a wireless IR system you can use (either with a second flash on your camera or using the ST-E2)
2 - you can run a lead from your camera's hotshoe to the flash;
3 - you can use radio-based triggers - the one most pros use are Pocket Wizards - but you can get much cheaper triggers on ebay.

The benefit of 1 & 2 over 3, is that you get to use the automated flash settings of the canon system such as ETTL & high speed sync.

The downside of 1 & 2 is that you are letting the camera decide how to take the picture to a certain degree which is why I prefer to use manual flash - you get consistency.

Saying that - the new pocket wizards do allow the transfer of Canon flash data - but they are expensive & you can get the same effect just by buying the older ones & understanding what you are using the flash for.

[Chris Hawkins]

Flash seems totally inappropriate to me for this kind of shooting. If you're close enough to have an effect, you are close enough to cause serioius distraction. Shoot at high ISO and live with the noise. Use NR is PP if required. With the D700 you can easily shoot at ISO 10,000 with acceptable noise - I assume the MkII is similar.

[carter]

ok thanks fot the help guys. As I said, have ordered a 580 so after learning how to use it, I will give it a try, perhaps with just side-on or rear shots, I agree, frontal shots could be distracting.
cheers ,carter