Influences

[tonymidd]

I've posted this on another not so professionally orintated forum and thought it would be interesting to compare the different reactions, if any.

The work of Friedlander, Erwitt, Winogrand, William Kein, Robert Frank and many others including Raymond Moore showed me that the everyday scene can be photographed. The result may not be a pretty picture, more a comment on contemporary life and as such of both contemporanious and future value.
All the above photgraphers worked in mono. I got interested in contemporary colour photography after seeing an exhibition of Eggleston's work at the Barbican, I was soon looking at the likes of Pfahl, Samaras, Sternfield and Christenberry. I find colour much more difficult to work in than mono for this style of work. Most of these influences were postive, occasionally there was work which I did not like, or maybe understand, Martin Parr and Arbus for instance.

It's not easy to understand or see what motivates photographers like those mentioned above from a few images on a web site, you really need a body of work. When I first opened Robert Frank's 'The Americans' way back in the early 60's I was first shocked, then surprised that one could take this sort of photograph, then totally converted to social documentry. It says much for such a then controversal book that it's still in print 45 years from it's inital publication.

The only current show case for this sort of work that I know of is foto8, a magazine devoted to reportage. www.foto8.com (http://www.foto8.com/)

[Stemmy]

Tony - great post

I spent time searching for the people you have mentioned (as I had not heard of any of them) and fouind quite a bit of their work on the net.

Social documentation just isnt my thing. A lot of the time I just dont get it !!. Maybe its my age (still only a nipper - ish) but most of it doesnt excite me. Obviously what you said is right, seeing a couple of pictures on the net doesnt give you any insight into what the photographer is trying to convey to the viewer.

When a photographer is taking pictures of something that you can relate to ie. the tsunami, earthquake in pakistan then you feel the heartache etc.

I cant remember if it was you or Dennis who is LRPS, so am I, and I get the RPS Journal every month - to me (and this is just my opinion) its full of junk. It takes me about two minutes to flick through the pages and then it goes straight in the bin. Its full of pictures that mean absolutley nothing to me - they dont push any buttons or make me want to find out more about what they are about.

Photography is so diverse and this is why sooo may people like it. What some people love others hate. Im not saying that this genre of photography is rubbish, far from it. But it seldom sends the shivvers up my spine.

Again it might be an age thing. Ive only been into photography for around 10 years. It might be something you grow into. Maybe when I have time its something to look deeper into. Its a shame but 100% of my time is spent progressing the business and looking after my family.

Somebody who does push my buttons is a photographer called Yervant. Again I think the only reason for this is because he is a Social photographer like me i.e Weddings & Portraits. I often visit his site for some inspiration before a wedding.

http://www.yervant.com/main.htm

[DennisB]

Yes Tony, I agree with Stemmy (wash my mouth out with carbolic :D ) This is an interesting post, and I am sure it will flag up many different opinions. I agree with much of what Stemmy has said, but having been interested in photography for 50 years, I don't think it is necessarily and age thing. I have always been aware that there are photograpic styles I just don't like, or more likely, don't understand. There are many un-attractive things in the world, and they do need to be photographed to make us all aware of what we should be trying to improve on, be it polution, poverty, bigotry etc. These topics don't usually make images which are comfortable or entertaining. As a strictly hobbiest photographer, I don't feel drawn to such reportage photography in any great way.

I always thought it strange that, unlike many of my photographer friends, I could never quote any of the "famous" photographers that I felt influenced by. I would more likely quote someone who I knew, or had met. Thinking more on this point, I suppose Laurie Campbell, a Scottish wildlife photographer is one who I admire most. ( www.lauriecampbell.com )

His photography, in my opinion, is unequalled, but what influences me most is the man himself. He spoke at one of our camera club meetings, and he came over as a very modest man, with great determination and an enthusiasm which was positively infectious.

Although not a people photographer, I admire the works of others in this field, including many taking part in this forum. Yet again, I would claim not to be influenced by any particular photographer in this field, but if I had to name one, it would be David Eustace.
(http://www.davideustace.com/index.html )
David also visited our camera club and we had one of the most enjoyable evenings I can remember. Having researched his background, I must admit I was not looking forward much to his talk. Local lad makes good, and now social photographer based in London and New York and photographer of the celebs... did not have much going for it as far as I could see. I thought we were going to be subjected to a self-centred "look how good and famous I am" sort of evening. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Again, it was the man himself who made the evening so memorable. An infectious enthusiasm for his photography, and a down to earth modesty which was most unusual.

He arrived with a couple of portfolio books under his arm, and most of the time he just chatted with the audience about what he did and how he got into it all. We had a look at his portfolio books over the tea break, and all too soon it was time for him to go. We all knew that we had got something special out of that evening, but we were left with a feeling of bewilderment that such a busy chap would take time out to come and talk to a bunch of hobbyists.

Anyway, to stop this ramble.... I do not claim to have been influenced by other photographers, but obviously I have !!

By the way, Stemmy. LRPS? No, definately not me, but that's another topic for a long ramble :D

[tonymidd]

A couple of interesting replys. A couple of points I should have made clear at the begining, these photographers have had little or no influence on my approach to my commercial photography, that was drilled into me many years ago at art college, so these thoughts or comments apply only to my hobby work. When I was doing wedding photography maybe a bit of the reportage style crept in. Studio portraits and that formal side has always left me cold which is why I never got involved. The likes of Karsh, Beaton, and even Patrick Lichfield's formal stuff does absolutly nothing for me. As for the studio work that comes out of the clubs, especially the nudes, it's so stylised as to be santitised.

Art photography also interests me and again many influences have been applied. Ansel Adams leaves me cold, he's far too clincical in his approach, compare his images of Yosemite with those of Carleton Watkins taken in the late 1880's. Interesting that Watkins was included in the fabulous MOMA exhibition 'The Art of Photography' and Adams was left out. This fantastic exhibition at the Royal Academy in 1989 was to commemorate the 150 anniversary of photography. Obviously the 'art' masters, Strand, Stieglitz, Weston have had an efect on on me but so have more modern workers, Kertesz, Saudek and Scot Callum Colvin.

Dennis you are so right about getting to know the photographer, obviously the likes of Western or Adams this usually has to be thru the arts programmes on radio or TV, even interviews reported in magazines. However I was lucky in the 80's and early 90's when I was a member of the RPS Contemporary Group and got to meet many modern 'greats', including Moore, Fay Godwin, Blakemore, and Tom Cooper. Your point Dennis reminds me of a lady member of one of my clubs who looked at my copy of Paul Hill's White Peak, Dark Peak and said 'don't see the point'. At that time Paul was still running the 'Photographers Place' and we were having a weekend there. This lady bravely came (one lass with ten blokes) and after talking to Paul and going out photographing with him she left with a signed copy of that book which is still one of her prized posessions.

As for the value of reportage I think it falls into two catagories. The contemporary and historical. For instance at the time of being taken Lewis Hine's work helped stop child labour in the states, Smith's Minamata stopped a village being poisoned by mercury. Now several years on both bodies of work are regarded as historical social documents bordering on art.
You can draw an analogy with wedding photography, look how this has changed over the years, you can see definite areas. The period between the wars, post war, sixties and the modern. Each reflects the socal attitudes prevelent at the time, just another form of social documentary photography to future historianshttp://www.wedding-photography.org/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif.

PS for what it's worth I've got a LBPPA and may go for the 'A' this year both with the RPS and BPPA.
Adding a bit more having re-read your posts.
Martin my Journal also goes into the bin.
Age thing no. It's an educational thing; if where ever you learnt your photography did not expose you to the past they only did half a job. A hobby horse of mine that photography is poorly taught in this country, to much 'how' not enough 'why'. Even pro's need to know what has gone before and gain inspiration and ideas from their predecessors in all fields.
Dennis just had a look at David Eustace's site, surely his travel photographs are in the same vein as all those whom I mentioned in the first post. I especially like the shot of the lad with out streached arms.

[tonymidd]

well worth the time to read thru this

http://www.imx.nl/start.html

[tonymidd]

In 10 days time there opens an exhibition at Midlands Arts Centre in Birmingham of Walker Evans work for the FSA during 1935/6. This is a must for me, while Lange's Migrant Mother is the definative image from the FSA Walker's work is much more broad in it's scope. I like the way he often uses things rather than people to show the effects of the dustbowl, a simple bed, primative washstand, knives and forks. Absolutley brilliant. If anyone wants to find out what reportage/documentry work is about studying the FSA is a good starting point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_Security_Administration

This site has links to the work of the FSA photographers. Irronically photography was a side line for the original FSA but is now what it's best known for. http://www.wedding-photography.org/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Choogster]

no influences - I dont know any professional photographers names, I dont follow anybodies work. My intent is to experiment, not to mimick.

[tonymidd]

no influences - I dont know any professional photographers names, I dont follow anybodies work. My intent is to experiment, not to mimick.
Sorry but that first statement is just not true. Everything around you has an influence upon you, whether this conscious or subconscious. TV, films, newspapers, advertising hordings even this forum all have an effect upon how you view and try to interpret the world about you.
By inference you think those of us who do look at, and try to understand, others work then mimick it. This is very patronising. You can study others work and still go your own way. If you do not look at others work how do you know that your experiments have not been done before? Or worse if you are subcosciously following someone else? As there's nowt new one of these is probably so.
I find it very strange that it's only photographers who generally take your stance of trying to ignore that which has gone before, musicians, painters, etc all study their predecesors and contemporaries and still produce individual work.
The only way you will achive what you think you do is to go and live on an unhabited island. http://www.wedding-photography.org/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Choogster]

I mean no photographer influences, not no influences around me. How would I take any photographs at all without influences.

[tonymidd]

I mean no photographer influences, not no influences around me. How would I take any photographs at all without influences.
I think you are missing an awful lot by taking this stance, I've had people at workshops and study groups who have thought like this only for them to find that it just ain't so.

[england1965]

Robert Doisneau, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Eugene Ataget and Andre Kertesz

for their sense of timing and composition

[Arca-dog]

I carry out a lot of architectural work and do like to study others in my field, Gerry O'Leary www.gerryoleary.com first inspired me to give it a serious go and I also rate Martine Hamilton Knight's work www.mhkvision.co.uk

The internet is great for finding inspiration and looking at what works for others, then incorporating it into your own work.

I wonder if they look at my site? :cool: