a chilling series of images

[tonymidd]

This series of photographs is featured in the current issue of InScape; to say I find them frightening is putting it mildly. These were not taken in the 50's or 60's but during the 1990's and early 2000's.
The shot of the boy and doll is particularly chilling.
These photographs are exhibited in the St Mungo Museum Glasgow until 9/04, the first time they have been displayed since 2003.

http://www.generationkkk.com

Powerfull stuff, reportage at it's best.

Tony

[Dotty.c]

My god Tony these images are terrifying, just don't know what else to say i'm so shocked that this sort of thing still goes on, free speech taken a step to far.

[Choogster]

reminds me of fletch lives.

[lostmysnorkel]

Whilst I fully support the right to think what you like, believe what you like, and generally live in freedom. Seeing images like this does make me reevaluate where the limits should be drawn.

Thank goodness we have laws in this country that DO draw a line as to how far you can go with it.

[BarryM]

I agree, i think its terrible that images like these should be allowed to be posted, in this day and age. The good news is i see that the kkk photographer is holding a meeting in glasgow, i might just turn up at that, plant a burning camera in the grounds and give a little back

[tonymidd]

I think a couple of you have got the wrong end of the stick.

[Choogster]

art is art no matter what the subject is. (within reason)

[Dotty.c]

I think a couple of you have got the wrong end of the stick.
I see the point your trying to make about documentary photography at it's best, the same thing happened at the end of WW11, when the bodies were photographed after liberating the concentration camps, sickening but they brought this to the notice of Joe public.

[Dotty.c]

I think a couple of you have got the wrong end of the stick.

For some of thr best documentary photo's ever done
www.magnumphotos.com (http://www.magnumphotos.com)

look under photographers, then look at George Rodger.

[tonymidd]

Apparently this series has resulted in death threats to the photographer from KKK members. Bates objective was to bring to the attention of the wide Ammerican population and the world what was still going on in the deep south.
I certainly don't think this is intended to be art; it may become art as Solgardo's work is doing; the primary intent of reportage is to inform.
Barry, Bates is not the KKK photographer, he is a photographer who risked his life to expose the modern KKK, a very different thing. You say such images should not be shown today, why not? Does the grim reallity grate against the comffey urban lifestyle that most of us enjoy? Goverments all over the world are doing things that they would rather the great unwashed did not know about. Work like this, following on in the footsteps of McCullin, Eugene Smith, Burrows and Hine and many others, that tries to expose some of the worlds wrongs can not, should not, be supressed.
Bate's work obviously had the right effect on you even tho' you miss-read his involvement, take your burning camera to Mississippi not Glasgow.

[BarryM]

sorry, i wasnt having a go at the photographer what so ever, i perhaps did miss read it slightly, i just felt that some things shouldnt be photographed and displayed for the public to see, in a way i think it helps their cause by publicising it. I can see what he was doing and admire him that way, but if these groups are totally totally ignored then i know it drives them underground a bit but they do become very isolated.

On another note, i was actually suprised to see that the KKK are still on the go, truthfully i dont know much about them, only what ive seen on telly etc, but to me this lot are worse than terrorist groups.

[Davey]

Well, the images certainly provoke a sense of horror and disgust purely from the image content. However, was the author trying to depict these feelings while "snapping" away with a hidden camera? or, was his thoughts concentrated on low light, flare and f stops trying to get a good image? Did the paparatzi photographers think the same while trying to get "The" image of princess Di,dying in a car! If it wasn't for images akin to these, terrifying or not, the world would surely be a very blinkered place.

[Tim]

Incredible and disturbing images... Frightening to see such hatred and ignorance still alive today in the 'land of the free'.. These images do need to be shown to the public to create awareness and hopefully educate some of the new generation KKK into using their mind instead of being brainwashed by these scum..

[tonymidd]

sorry, i wasnt having a go at the photographer what so ever, i perhaps did miss read it slightly, i just felt that some things shouldnt be photographed and displayed for the public to see, in a way i think it helps their cause by publicising it. I can see what he was doing and admire him that way, but if these groups are totally totally ignored then i know it drives them underground a bit but they do become very isolated.
On another note, i was actually suprised to see that the KKK are still on the go, truthfully i dont know much about them, only what ive seen on telly etc, but to me this lot are worse than terrorist groups.
You are so so wrong, driving them underground makes them unseen and unknown. Imagine the havoc an underground unknown National Front could cause in the UK. You now feel strongly about the KKK, if Bates had not taken his images and had the publicity you would still be blissfully unaware of what's happening in the deep south. One could draw parellels with Germany in the 1930/40's and how the German public at large, and the rest of the world, were shielded from what was happening in the gettos and camps. The photographs of George Rogers did much to convince the world what happen and still does.
I've learnt from a Texan friend that the KKK is not illigal as to ban such a body is non-constitutional!!!!!! As he says unacceptable yes, illigal no.
In my book any group, right, left or centre that distriminates against anyone or an other group on the grounds of colour, religion or any other ethnic reason is not acceptable.

[tonymidd]

Well, the images certainly provoke a sense of horror and disgust purely from the image content. However, was the author trying to depict these feelings while "snapping" away with a hidden camera? or, was his thoughts concentrated on low light, flare and f stops trying to get a good image? Did the paparatzi photographers think the same while trying to get "The" image of princess Di,dying in a car! If it wasn't for images akin to these, terrifying or not, the world would surely be a very blinkered place.Bates was not using hidden cameras, in the areas of Mississippi and Louisianna where these shots were taken the KKK is accepted by the public at large. As Bates was born in this area his real intentions were probably not suspected.
As to how he took the shots I know he was using 35mm, probably M Leica, so he would have used his knowledge and experience to preset his cameras for a lot of the shots, just as Cartier-Bresson did, the classic 35mm lens focused at 20 feet, will give you a reasonable result a lot of the time. The street candid photographers standard settings. He certainly was not blasting away on auto nor was he snapping away, the tightly controlled composition of his shots shows this. To do this sort of work as well as Bates has you have to know what you are doing.
And please don't confuse this sort of reportage with the sickening antics of the paparatzi who only want to make a quick buck by feeding the gutter press. Bates' work should be published as widely as possible, especially in the states but to publish shots of a dying woman in a car crash or, as a few days ago, someone jumping to their death is, to me, just bad taste.

[Dotty.c]

Bates was not using hidden cameras, in the areas of Mississippi and Louisianna where these shots were taken the KKK is accepted by the public at large. As Bates was born in this area his real intentions were probably not suspected.
As to how he took the shots I know he was using 35mm, probably M Leica, so he would have used his knowledge and experience to preset his cameras for a lot of the shots, just as Cartier-Bresson did, the classic 35mm lens focused at 20 feet, will give you a reasonable result a lot of the time. The street candid photographers standard settings. He certainly was not blasting away on auto nor was he snapping away, the tightly controlled composition of his shots shows this. To do this sort of work as well as Bates has you have to know what you are doing.
And please don't confuse this sort of reportage with the sickening antics of the paparatzi who only want to make a quick buck by feeding the gutter press. Bates' work should be published as widely as possible, especially in the states but to publish shots of a dying woman in a car crash or, as a few days ago, someone jumping to their death is, to me, just bad taste.

I agree whole heartedly with your comments, it's one thing to document and quite another to hound some one just to make a name. The paparatzi have made it so difficult for photographers to take photographs in area's where there are celeb's living. We are surrounded here, Midge Ure, peter Gabrial, John Taylor (duran duran) Camilla Parker-Bowles (as was) to name but a few, all live in lovely rural locations, but the police presence to stop the Pap's, often results in innocent hobbiest's being stopped and questioned.

[Marcin]

The shot of the boy and doll is particularly chilling.

Yes, it's terrifying.

And this is what the photographer's work means to me: to show the reality as it is. You don't need to change a thing - the real world is enough to show. "There is no stronger drug than reality".

Great reportage - ugly theme.

[spearwort]

Well, these images have certainly woken me up - I was unaware that this sort of thing still happened so openly in this day and age. We need photographers such as Bates to expose this sort of terror, the man should be commended.

What is worse is that it is people such as this (KKK, not Bates) that voted Bush back in when all the educated people realised what a threat he is. But that's a thread not for this forum ....

[Sean]

Hi everyone...

This is my first comment in this forum, but after viewing this thread I felt compelled to give my opinion.

These are truely provocative images but I think some people have gone off the mark a bit. Photography is an art and therefore incredibly subjective. This subjectivity should in turn lead us towards open debate and structured discussion/criticism in order to learn, understand and form an evaluated opinion for ourselves.

This is exactly what we are doing.

We may not like the idea the images portray but the fact that they make us feel uncomfortable and we are saying so, means the photographer has done his job. Art is as much about what we feel as what we see.

I felt so strongly against the content, that I felt the need to write....especially about the ones showing the innocence and vunerability of children.

All in all, powerful images, nicely photographed and well presented. Well done.

[tibet]

I think it's important to see this as, over here, we are unaware that things like this still exist but I also can see the other point that was raised such as, ignoring them would also be a good thing. I guess it's an endless debate.
As for the shots themselves, I'm not so sure the guy was knowing what he was doing and these can certainly NOT be considered as good photography since lots of highlights are blown out and the compo is far from being brilliant either! There's 1 or 2 really good one in there but Most of these are snapshots and not good quality photography! Interesting snapshots, but snapshots nonetheless.
Thx for sharing the info, it's definitely a wake up call, one that makes me really angry! I believe this sort of manifestations should be illegal as they are direct attacks against some specific people of the community and this is unacceptable.
Let's shoot the KKK members! :hunter: yep!

[Alan Fairhurst]

I agree with the point of view that these photos should be shown. Many of us would be unaware of what is going on if they were not shown. But, they should be shown as reportage. I don't think they are exibition material.

[Lisa Janette]

It,s photographs like theses that save lives regardless of how well they are taken, making people more aware of what is going on in the world can only help raise the issues and find supporters against such cruel things. Every year we watch images on, children in need, comic relief etc. . al theses images are deliberatley played on t.v to get the shock effect, to shock people into doing something about it. . I hope theses images work in this way, as they seem to have got everyones attention on the forum already.

[tibet]

Yep, I agree. They're very good in that way indeed. Shocking.

[StagePhotography.co.uk]

It is the photographer aim to see the world as it is...

It can be beautiful....

It can be horrible...

Judge not my eyes, judge my world...

and you can quote me on that..