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Camera Sytem advice

Classicbiker

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I'm a returning photographer. Done all sorts in the past but need a new challenge and see natural history, landscape and wildlife the direction I want to go in. I'm just doing it for fun but also want to do it to the highest standard I can. My pocket dept has its limits. I currently shot with a Micro Four thirds camera with one good quality standard zoom.

Should I build on this as a system or use something else? I tend to buy used everything if I can and happy to go back to a DSLR if needs be.

It's the longer lenses that seem to be the expensive part of this game?

Any thought or input is most appreciated
 

Phill104

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From my point of view, the most important thing it to use kitmyou are comfortable using. For instance, I have been a very long term user of Canon kit so am used to the location of all the buttons, the dials and the feel. When I use Nikon’s for instance, everything is different, even the direction the dials adjust things is different. So while in normal use I can get along, under pressure I make mistakes due to the differences in ergonomics. So if you are looking for a system, get one your muscle memory is used to, or at least one that is similar.

MFT has some great lenses. In your case something like the 100-400, a macro and a wide zoom might be good for your needs. As you say, they can be expensive. That is true for all brands and systems though. With the more mature ranges there are used bargains available, such as the old Canon 400 f5.6. You can get an EF adapter for the MFT cameras though I am not sure how well they work. There are adapters for most brands to MFT. So maybe look at a route of used lenses you can adapt to your body, and later on if you want you could add a native body.
 

SFTphotography

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For wildlife you will need the longer lenses and this is expensive no matter what the system.

For landscapes you can use the longer lens for more detail style shots but you will need something shorter.

Everyones idea of affordable is different. For me IQ is everything so I shoot with a Pentax medium format digital system now. It was not cheap, nor is it light but it is wonderful.

If you can afford a larger sensor system - then I would recommend it. Actually as what you shoot are two very separate things you might be served well with the M43's and long lens for the wildlife and a full frame Sony A7RiV and 16-35 plus 24-70 or a Fuji GFX100s and 32-64 plus 45-100 lens for landscapes. Neither of these will options will breach £10,000 and will deliver image quality in spades.

I've recommended mirrorless systems as you already have one so this might be more what you are comfortable with - and also the two highest resolution bodies going that cost under £6000. To get more resolution that the GFX100s you'd have to step up to a Hasselblad H system or Phase One system which with lenses will comfortably exceed £50,000 to buy into.
 
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Ozzie_Traveller

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G'day CB

One of the cameras in my arsenal is a Panny G2 now a decade old but I also use their 100-300mm as well. The camera body technology has come a long way over that decade and the newer G-series offer huge improvements in performance. As to lenses, if I were doing it again, in the first instance I would probably stump up for the 100-400 now available, and later on when $$ becomes available, get a newer body and have the current one as a second unit and go from there.

As others above have mentioned - changing brands causes you some angst via new menus + new camera controls + other stuff that you probably don't need these days

Hope this helps
Phil
 

imagesBV

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Regarding longer lenses....the Canon RF600 or RF800...are a novel fixed aperture design and can be had for £600-£850 new. They’re are fixed f11 which means using high ISO. I just bought the 600 and it’s amazing. I would go for newer R system rather than older DSLRs for better noise and dynamic range. But on the other hand dSLRs are great value second hand and second hand lens prices are falling. Having said that I’ve seen fantastic wildlife shots from Olympus system users...their long zooms look great.

my lowest budget choice for you would be Canon RP, RF24-105 STM and RF600 ...cost around £2k. Or top end Canon R5, RF24-70L, RF100-500 1.5x adaptor ....about £10k

my actual recently re-comprised rig is R6, RF50 STM, RF24-105L, RF600....that’s it all bases covered.....until I get GAS again.

did I mention I like Canon....tried Oly, Fuji but back to Canon for ergonomics, menus and familiarity which has been raised above.

hope that helps...and please let us know your choice or further deliberations.
 

Classicbiker

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wow thanks for all of your input on this :ok:

I currently Have an Olympus OM-D Em1 Mk2 with a 12-40 f/2.8 lens. I find it really good for what it is and love the weather sealing and portability it offers. I have used and owned many cameras in my time from all the big names. Sony did seem to offer the best on screen image quality ( A7RII) but i found it to be a rather fragile camera with no weather sealing to speak of or Image stabilisation ( I know the newer ones do). I like to print images to about A3 ish and find the Oly can do this really well.

I need to study the new crop of cameras on the market I guess. It seems the main expense is the longer lenses. Initially I may go down the macro and landscape route and larger animals that don't need such long lenses? What system I settle on? time will tell :) I need to settle on the system before I invest in the long stuff as i see that as a long term commitment.
 

Ozzie_Traveller

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wow thanks for all of your input on this ........ I need to study the new crop of cameras on the market I guess. ...... I need to settle on the system before I invest in the long stuff as i see that as a long term commitment.
G'day mate
Pop into DP Review.com and see their listings and reviews
Phil
 

Petrochemist

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Regarding longer lenses....the Canon RF600 or RF800...are a novel fixed aperture design and can be had for £600-£850 new. They’re are fixed f11 which means using high ISO. I just bought the 600 and it’s amazing.
Fixed aperture lenses aren't novel, practically all mirror lenses are fixed aperture, as are body cap lenses & adapted telescopes...
My Tasco 'World class' scope came with T2 adapters for a camera complete with markings of focal length & aperture settings. It's a bit slow but not bad at 1000mm f/16. I've not found a camera that works well zoomed in to 4000mm f/64, though It works fine as a scope zoomed right in.
 

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BTW I've just been playing with some GFX100's files sent to me. I posted this on there but for the benefit of the OP I will share it. Jist of it - don't buy a 32-64 lens.

So today I've been playing with GFX100s RAW files sent on from @LongLensPhotography who hired one.

The extra 50mp over the 645z is nice - I thought it would have more detail actually given the jump in MP's - it is there but not to the extent I would have expected. I don't feel short on pixels with the 645z.

Pluses.

I couldn't see PDAF banding or stripping. I was expecting to be able to see it. This is an non issue. Same will apply to the Sony A7RiV.

No sensor dirt and I could see at least two lens changes with his time with it. None at all. These are very well sealed indeed and vastly superior to any other camera system I've seen in this regard. My Nikons all sucked dirt in, even the 645z the odd one get through the sealed 28-45 and the others are in the dust sucker category.

Colours and dynamic range. In practice just as good as my 645z. These are nice clean files entirely worthy of a body costing £5500.

The 23mm lens was sharp everywhere and will offer a wider field of view over the widest lens in my set up. That lens is good and worthy of its relatively modest price tag.

Downers. 32-64 is a piece of ****. Dreadful at 50mm in the sides - actually unusable and worse than some budget full frame lenses. I would say this is a really lowsy lens. Not remotely in the same league as the 28-45 from Pentax - not remotely in the same price bracket and it shows. You are better with a lens that costs £5000 that actually is perfect rather than one that costs £2200 which is utterly hopeless. It was not even in the same league as my old Nikon 16-35 which I would rank as pretty lousy. I've now seen two sets of sample images to know that this lens is a pile of complete and total ****. I imagine this how crappy lenses like 17-40 L performs. It is a pile of **** made for **** amateurs who have all the gear and no idea.

Hot pixels - there seemed to be a massive number of them in a 60 sec exposure - certainly in the 100's. Even on a 1/25th sec exposure I spotted several. This is a rental camera so it could be shagged from poor use or a feature of having the sensor always on if you are using the EVF - a bit like using live view on a DSLR constantly.

I've yet to see 45-100 sample images and 100-200 sample images but thoughts would be just to buy the expensive primes on this system.

I won't be defecting anytime soon and never ever if Pentax make a 100mp version of the 645z.
 

Classicbiker

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Thanks for the further input. I deffo won't be going medium format. As it stands I'm considering a used but mint low shutter count Canon 5DS or a new Sony A7RIII or even an A7RII. Resolution wise I reckon they are enough for my needs and then some. I will also consider a Nikon D810 or 850.

The lenses are the hard part really. I have decided the longer stuff will have to wait. So I'm after macro, wide angle and medium zooms for all of the above. It's fun looking :)

Menu system wise I can cope with any of them as I have used and owned versions of them all in the past. I guess I'm looking for the best value for money with a little compromise as possible.
 
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SFTphotography

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Thanks for the further input. I deffo won't be going medium format. As it stands I'm considering a used but mint low shutter count Canon 5DR or a new Sony A7RIII or even an A7RII. Resolution wise I reckon they are enough for my needs and then some. I will also consider a Nikon D810 or 850.

The lenses are the hard part really. I have decided the longer stuff will have to wait. So I'm after macro, wide angle and medium zooms for all of the above. It's fun looking :)

Menu system wise I can cope with any of them as I have used and owned versions of them all in the past. I guess I'm looking for the best value for money with a little compromise as possible.
That's a shame as it really is excellent.

Nikon D810's are fine but the D850 is the one. You can buy grey on Panamoz or e-infinity to save a little. 5dsr is an amazing DSLR also. I'd get this or a D850. Wide angle zooms, had the lot on the Nikon, none were good. The 20mm prime F1.8 thing was lovey and the VR 24-70 is amazing. The non VR 24-70 is a little soft in the edges. Truth be told I think the lenses let the camera down a bit. Bar the Sigma ART primes none met my pixel perfect desires bar the latest FL 24-70 VR and 70-200 2.8 FL E thing.

If buying sony A7RII or R4 - skip the 3 model as the PDAF stripping/banding is an issue on this. It isn't on the 4 and the 2 doesn't have this on sensor phase detect AF system so it's a non issue on that. If buying mirroless full frame I would really consider the Sony over the overpriced Z Nikons and Canon R models.
 

Classicbiker

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That's a shame as it really is excellent.

Nikon D810's are fine but the D850 is the one. You can buy grey on Panamoz or e-infinity to save a little. 5dsr is an amazing DSLR also. I'd get this or a D850. Wide angle zooms, had the lot on the Nikon, none were good. The 20mm prime F1.8 thing was lovey and the VR 24-70 is amazing. The non VR 24-70 is a little soft in the edges. Truth be told I think the lenses let the camera down a bit. Bar the Sigma ART primes none met my pixel perfect desires bar the latest FL 24-70 VR and 70-200 2.8 FL E thing.

If buying sony A7RII or R4 - skip the 3 model as the PDAF stripping/banding is an issue on this. It isn't on the 4 and the 2 doesn't have this on sensor phase detect AF system so it's a non issue on that. If buying mirroless full frame I would really consider the Sony over the overpriced Z Nikons and Canon R models.
I really see the Sony A7RII as a bit of a bargain at the moment at £1200 new. I reckon I'm torn between this and the 5DS really but my mind is blown when considering what glass to buy for either of them. :wacko:
 

SFTphotography

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I really see the Sony A7RII as a bit of a bargain at the moment at £1200 new. I reckon I'm torn between this and the 5DS really but my mind is blown when considering what glass to buy for either of them. :wacko:
That is a bargain indeed. 42mp BSI sensor. Good camera for landscapes. For this get either the 16-35 F2.8 GM or 20mm F1.8 and the GM 24-70 2.8 and GM 70-200 2.8.

For the 5ds, I think the Canon 16-35 F4 get's good praise, heard mixed things re the 24-70 but tamron make a good example and no issues with a 70-200 2.8 or their 100-400 offering.
 

Classicbiker

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That is a bargain indeed. 42mp BSI sensor. Good camera for landscapes. For this get either the 16-35 F2.8 GM or 20mm F1.8 and the GM 24-70 2.8 and GM 70-200 2.8.

For the 5ds, I think the Canon 16-35 F4 get's good praise, heard mixed things re the 24-70 but tamron make a good example and no issues with a 70-200 2.8 or their 100-400 offering.
Looking at the costs of the glass. F2.8 over f4 version of the Sony lenses is huge. £2107 ( f4) £4949( F2.8) Not so sure I need the speed but I do still need a macro lens

Add on the camera body that's £6150 ( f2.8) or £3307 ( f/4)

Canon wise £1862 for the lenses you list, £100 more if I go for the 100-400 ( does macro too) or £230 less ( £1530 ) if i go with an f4 is 70-200 is

Add on the camera body Thats £3590 or £3159 depending on lens choice.

So Sony and Canon are similar price wise if I stick with f/4 for the Sony. I all depends on which is the better camera system for me and assumes the f/4 Sony lenses match the canon stuff for IQ?

all of the lens prices are used ones from MPB as is the canon Body, the Sony body is from Wex new
 

SFTphotography

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Looking at the costs of the glass. F2.8 over f4 version of the Sony lenses is huge. £2107 ( f4) £4949( F2.8) Not so sure I need the speed but I do still need a macro lens

Add on the camera body that's £6150 ( f2.8) or £3307 ( f/4)

Canon wise £1862 for the lenses you list, £100 more if I go for the 100-400 ( does macro too) or £230 less ( £1530 ) if i go with an f4 is 70-200 is

Add on the camera body Thats £3590 or £3159 depending on lens choice.

So Sony and Canon are similar price wise if I stick with f/4 for the Sony. I all depends on which is the better camera system for me and assumes the f/4 Sony lenses match the canon stuff for IQ?

all of the lens prices are used ones from MPB as is the canon Body, the Sony body is from Wex new
I didn't realise the Sony stuff cost that much. Jeezo. F4 it. I've just had a Canon F4 70-200 shot sent over - it's marvelous lens actually from the image I have received. I might be tempted by the 100-400 if I was you as you'll have a good reach for wildlife - and can sell your M43 system
 

Classicbiker

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I didn't realise the Sony stuff cost that much. Jeezo. F4 it. I've just had a Canon F4 70-200 shot sent over - it's marvelous lens actually from the image I have received. I might be tempted by the 100-400 if I was you as you'll have a good reach for wildlife - and can sell your M43 system
I used to shoot weddings with a canon 70-200 f/4 IS. It was a fantastic lens. Yes the 100-400 does look like a plan as doe the canon system They never let me down in the past. I can trade the m43 with MPB no problem

Thanks again for the input
 

Phill104

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I have the Canon 100-400II and it really is a stunner of a lens. Works at stupid close distances, is fast and very sharp. Well built too and gets great praise for its build from on the lens rentals blog. Had mine for a few years now, it gets used many times each week, abused by my numptiness and has not missed a beat. They do hold their price second hand too but that may change as RF takes over.
 

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I have the Canon 100-400II and it really is a stunner of a lens. Works at stupid close distances, is fast and very sharp. Well built too and gets great praise for its build from on the lens rentals blog. Had mine for a few years now, it gets used many times each week, abused by my numptiness and has not missed a beat. They do hold their price second hand too but that may change as RF takes over.
The price difference between the I and II is considerable :eek: Used they are about £800 or £1900 respectively. is the II considerably better? Does it work as well as a dedicated macro lens close up? Thanks for the input :)
 
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Phill104

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The price difference between the I and II is considerable :eek: Used they are about £800 or £1900 respectively. is the II considerably better? Does it work as well as a dedicated macro lens close up? Thanks for the input :)
Yes, it is considerably better. The mark one was a very good lens but there was variation in the quality of its sharpness, especially early ones. The mark 2 is faster to focus, very noticeably sharper, closer focus distance. When I had the mark 1 I always had to apply sharpening to my shots, with the mark 2 I rarely bother.
 

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I have a EOS 5Dsr. I love the camera, but don't use it much anymore. It has great resolution but only fair to middlin' dynamic range. Not really a problem for me because most captures were hdr using 3-5 exposures. If dynamic range is important to you, then you may want to reconsider the 5DS.
 

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I have a EOS 5Dsr. I love the camera, but don't use it much anymore. It has great resolution but only fair to middlin' dynamic range. Not really a problem for me because most captures were hdr using 3-5 exposures. If dynamic range is important to you, then you may want to reconsider the 5DS.
I have noticed that with some sample images from it, DR is not in the Nikon or 645z level but it's far from terrible.

It's more a case of expose as far to the right as you can and use a slightly stronger ND grad filter if you shoot landscapes.

There's a lot of scenes I shoot where I don't even fill the histogram range with the 645z or Nikon and I am quite tempted by one for a telephoto solution as medium format and long reach are not natural bedfellows.
 

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After all of this and a fair bit of research I have decided to stick with Olympus for now. I'm getting pretty good results with it to be honest and for Macro it has a lot to offer. The Hires mode is amazing too for none moving subjects as I some of the new features in Light room that can boost resolution for larger prints. It easy to carry about and weather sealed so thats me for now. MFT fanboy :grin:
 

Phill104

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I like MFT for macro. The 60mm macro lens is superb. I look forward to seeing some of your shots.
 

Classicbiker

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I like MFT for macro. The 60mm macro lens is superb. I look forward to seeing some of your shots.
Yeah it seems ideal for this subject. Even my 12-40 f/2.8 lens can focus very close. The 60mm macro is on my shopping list for sure :)
 

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The Nikon D850 is a fantastic bit of kit, if I wasn’t already invested in Canon it’s the route I’d have taken.
@Minor Problem has one and I’ve been really impressed with it on our road trips.
 
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