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FF vs APS-C

Phill104

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As usual the rumour mill is in full force just after any major release from a brand. In this case rumours of an RF APS-C camera coming next year are the talk of the minute.
As someone who owns FF and C cameras, I find for my shooting I rarely use FF, so the thought of a new APS-C camera always peaks my interest. It has however got me thinking. I know my reasons for using a crop camera, but what are others reasons? For me it is because for wildlife I like to travel light and move around quickly. Even when I am sat still, I look for interesting moments so swing the lens around a lot. Doing that on a FF with my old 500 F4.5 leaves me knackered very quickly. By contrast, the 100-400II I can chase things around all day. For macro, the field of view, pixel density and shallower effective DOf I like. I used to use a 100L IS on my 5D3 for macro, but the 7D or 80D with the 60mm suits me better, and fits in my bag easier.

As we move to mirrorless cameras, and the new lenses do I really need a crop?

Will be interested to hear other thoughts on crop vs FF or even MFT and why they choose that sensor size and system.

Why am I talking about this? Well a lot of it is to get my thoughts in the right p,ave. my old 7D2 is nearly treble it’s shutter life rating. While it is still working well, I know it cannot go on forever. As such I have to think of the future.I had another play with an R5 yesterday and it really is a nice camera. However, it if FF and I am not sure I want to go FF. I am in no rush to replace my 7D2, unless it dies. So if a crop RF comes next year I will then have a choice.
 
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Pteranadon

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I've pondered the FF quite often.
And if i may add- you always hear the saying about lenses. Get the one, so if you decide to upgrade to FF...
There are positives to FF.
But, in wildlife.. you may have to take the sacrafices along with it...less reach, more money...less detail...
My eye has been on the 5d miv.
I would love to have a bit more wiggle room in low light.
Yet...i would love to have the reach.
If canon would make a crop sensor that could handle what the 5d miv can...
I would call it a no brainer.
My 2 cents.
 

wornish

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I used FF Nikon (D800/D810) for many years before switching to M4/3 Olympus simply for the weight and size of the lenses.
I have now been on M4/3 for almost 3 years and don't regret the move. The sheer weight and size of the Full Frame glass made me leave it behind, if I went out. If I did take it out then it very quickly became a real pain to carry around.
I can now carry my 300mm F/4 lens with a 1.4 teleconverter giving me the equivalent field of view of an 840mm FF lens and use the amazing built in image stabilisation to capture images I would never have been able to get using a Full Frame set up, even if I could afford the lens.
 

Phill104

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even if I could afford the lens.
Good point on price. I am sure many choose based on cost. When you can use a smaller sensor with a smaller lens and get just as many pixels on subject it saves a lot of money. The camera bodies may be not too far apart cost wise, but there is a big price differential in glass. Having said that, even if money is no object, I am not sure if I purchased a 600 F4 that it would get much use. It is not just the camera and lens, I would have to add some support to it a lot of the time.
 

SeanNeedham

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Big full frame stuff for when I'm doing photography work (though the work machines haven't seen much use this year!) and smaller 1.5x based machines for when I'm not. Taking the work rig somewhere when I'm not working, unless I've got a specific thing in mind, either puts me in to "work mode" when taking photos, or worse, puts me off taking photos entirely. Now I've changed to Fuji for the personal machines just to force the separation further.
 

DonS

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For me it was price. APS-C cameras usually cost less. That is the only reason I use one. I only have two EF-S lenses, Sigma 10-20 and Canon 24mm pancake, the rest are FF lenses.
 

Phill104

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For me it was price. APS-C cameras usually cost less. That is the only reason I use one. I only have two EF-S lenses, Sigma 10-20 and Canon 24mm pancake, the rest are FF lenses.
Sounds fair to me. I think the gap in image quality is getting smaller every generation to the point now where there is very little in it,

Big full frame stuff for when I'm doing photography work (though the work machines haven't seen much use this year!) and smaller 1.5x based machines for when I'm not. Taking the work rig somewhere when I'm not working, unless I've got a specific thing in mind, either puts me in to "work mode" when taking photos, or worse, puts me off taking photos entirely. Now I've changed to Fuji for the personal machines just to force the separation further.
I got a bit like that when I was using a 500 f4.5 and a 180mm macro lens as my main kit. Just didn't want to lug it all around, it sucked the joy out of it. So many light options these days.
 

SeanNeedham

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So many light options these days.
I think more importantly, quite a few good quality light options. Back when I started with digital, light generally meant lower spec'd machines with a bog-roll kit lens; that middle bit between basic and the higher end stuff has filled out a lot since the early 2000's.
 

Keitht

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When I made the move to digital, it was really FF or nothing if you wanted good quality, high res images. I stayed with FF until about 2 years ago, when the weight of camera and lens was becoming a problem for my shoulder when I was out and about. I made the jump to the smaller sensor, and for the type of image I'm taking there doesn't seem to be any downside. I have kept the FF camera for now, but may well move it on if the world ever gets back to normal.
 

JonathanJones

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All of my digital cameras have been APS-C. I don't have a 'style' of shooting, I'm equally bad at all of them. I am looking to get a FF mirrorless camera so I can easily adapt my many old lenses to it. I want to have all the old quirks and glitches that the old lenses are known and loved for, not just 1.6x% of them.
 

Mike Singh

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If I ever upgrade it will be to a mirrorless camera. That’s as far as I’ve gotten.../
 

Skyshot

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I changed from APS-C to full frame about eighteen months ago. To me the difference between the two is night and day - I'd never go back.

I may go even larger to MF in the future if I can ever afford it, but I'd never go back to a smaller sensor.
 

Phill104

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I changed from APS-C to full frame about eighteen months ago. To me the difference between the two is night and day - I'd never go back.

I may go even larger to MF in the future if I can ever afford it, but I'd never go back to a smaller sensor.
What subjects do you shoot?
 

MikeB

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I've pondered the FF quite often.
And if i may add- you always hear the saying about lenses. Get the one, so if you decide to upgrade to FF...
There are positives to FF.
But, in wildlife.. you may have to take the sacrafices along with it...less reach, more money...less detail...
My eye has been on the 5d miv.
I would love to have a bit more wiggle room in low light.
Yet...i would love to have the reach.
If canon would make a crop sensor that could handle what the 5d miv can...
I would call it a no brainer.
My 2 cents.
A crop camera does not give more reach, just a smaller field of view. If you take a FF and a crop camera, both having the same number of pixels per square mm., and crop into the resulting image from the FF, you would have 2 identical images.

The advantage of a crop camera, besides price, is that for shooting certain subjects (i.e. birds) you do not need to crop into the image nearly as much as with a FF.
 

Phill104

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A crop camera does not give more reach, just a smaller field of view. If you take a FF and a crop camera, both having the same number of pixels per square mm., and crop into the resulting image from the FF, you would have 2 identical images.

The advantage of a crop camera, besides price, is that for shooting certain subjects (i.e. birds) you do not need to crop into the image nearly as much as with a FF.
It is all about pixels on subject. If for instance I took a shot of a frame filling bird (same focal length and distance) on a 7D2 that would be 20mp, on the 45mp R5 I would only get 17mp on the bird. So while we can be pedantic about the differences, we should still in theory get more detail using the crop camera.
 

Pteranadon

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If this helps or not?
No matter the outcome- i strive to get as close as i can, minimal crop, and most importantly not stressing the subject.
FF inherantly i may be dissapointed with only specific attributes that over comes the "need" to get close would i go for FF.
 

mxer

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I chose FF, Nikon 700 and 750, after deciding on lenses. Nikkor 16 Fisheye and 17-35/2.8.
“Long” lenses are Nikkor 180/2.8 and Nikkor ED 300/4.5 AIS.
I leave the long glass to others.
 

choccy

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When i bought my new camera few months ago, I was tempted to go with a FF but went with the Fujifilm X-T4 and I love it.
 
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