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Jupiter 9 in a crop format

peruexplorer

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Hi everybody,

I have a Canon 70D and I am interested in the vintage russian lenses.
I was planning to buy a Jupiter 9 because of its beautiful bokeh. However I saw a video where a guy tested the Helios 40 in a crop format and the effect of the bokeh was almost lost due to the fact that the sensor didn't get it.
My question is if there is the same problem with the Jupiter 9. Do some of you already tried this lens in a crop format camera?
Thanks
 

Eoanthropus

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Hi everybody,

I have a Canon 70D and I am interested in the vintage russian lenses.
I was planning to buy a Jupiter 9 because of its beautiful bokeh. However I saw a video where a guy tested the Helios 40 in a crop format and the effect of the bokeh was almost lost due to the fact that the sensor didn't get it.
My question is if there is the same problem with the Jupiter 9. Do some of you already tried this lens in a crop format camera?
Thanks
"The sensor didn't get it" doesn't make any sense. Bokeh is strictly a characteristic of the lens and has nothing to do with the sensor. Same lens = same bokeh. It's likely that your video author is confused about bokeh and thinks it's the degree of out of focus in the background as opposed to the character of that out of focus area and has further gotten his thinking convoluted by mixing in equivalency variations in DOF between different sensor sizes. You're probably not going to put that lens on your camera and then as you go to frame a photo reevaluate your camera position so you'd be producing the equivalent photo that you would have gotten from the FF camera you're not using -- bet you won't even think about that.

The camera sensor doesn't change lens bokeh. Camera's with smaller sensors used to take equivalent photos have to use a larger aperture than a larger sensor camera to create equivalent DOF -- that's not bokeh.
 

BrianS

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Bokeh of many lenses is most pronounced at the edge of the frame, hence the statement about using the lens on a smaller sensor than the lens was designed for. "Swirly Bokeh" of lenses like the Helios-44 and Helios-40 is strongest at the edges. This is due to astigmatism in the lens.

This 1930s 5cm F2 Summar on a full-frame camera, Swirly Bokeh- edges most pronounced.



A Jupiter-9 is a Sonnar formula lens. I use a J-9 on a Leica M8, a 1.33x crop. Images look great, the J-9 has little astigmatism (swirlies) and has under-corrected for spherical aberration Bokeh that will show up just fine.
 
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BrianS

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Jupiter-9 on the Leica M8, 1.33x crop factor.
 

peruexplorer

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"The sensor didn't get it" doesn't make any sense. Bokeh is strictly a characteristic of the lens and has nothing to do with the sensor. Same lens = same bokeh. It's likely that your video author is confused about bokeh and thinks it's the degree of out of focus in the background as opposed to the character of that out of focus area and has further gotten his thinking convoluted by mixing in equivalency variations in DOF between different sensor sizes. You're probably not going to put that lens on your camera and then as you go to frame a photo reevaluate your camera position so you'd be producing the equivalent photo that you would have gotten from the FF camera you're not using -- bet you won't even think about that.

The camera sensor doesn't change lens bokeh. Camera's with smaller sensors used to take equivalent photos have to use a larger aperture than a larger sensor camera to create equivalent DOF -- that's not bokeh.

Thanks a lot for your answer. Maybe the author of the video is mistaken or maybe I understood wrong what he said. I put the link of the video and you can give me your opinion.
 

peruexplorer

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Jupiter-9 on the Leica M8, 1.33x crop factor.
Wouu those are wonderful photos, in fact I am convinced that the crop factor doesn't produce les bokeh effect. I really thank you for those examples in a crop sensor.
 

BrianS

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Thankyou. I found one more example- up close, wide-open on the Leica M8.

Jupiter-9, Wide-Open by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

You need to find a version of the J-9 that can be used on an SLR, it was made on several mounts. If it is in Leica/Fed mount or Contax/Kiev mount- it cannot be adapted to an SLR. The J-9 was also made in M42 SLR mount- this can be adapted.
 

Eoanthropus

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Thanks a lot for your answer. Maybe the author of the video is mistaken or maybe I understood wrong what he said. I put the link of the video and you can give me your opinion.
Brian was correct -- the video author was referring specifically to swirly bokeh which is increasingly apparent on the frame edges. I don't know if that's what you were expecting from the Jupiter lens specifically. I think it's better known for a Sonar design style smooth bokeh.
 

peruexplorer

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Brian was correct -- the video author was referring specifically to swirly bokeh which is increasingly apparent on the frame edges. I don't know if that's what you were expecting from the Jupiter lens specifically. I think it's better known for a Sonar design style smooth bokeh.
I was not expecting the same about the Jupiter 9 because the Helios is different, however I know that the Jupiter 9 is quite soft at the edges that add many charm to the photos and if that is lost in the crop format, then it could be that most of the charm is lost.
Nevertheless I saw the photos in this topic and I find them quite good and I believe this lens keep its charm with crop format.
Thanks
 

peruexplorer

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I would like to share something with you, it is about the lens I want to buy, I saw the photos of the product and I saw something like oil in the blades. I read that there shouldn't be oil in the blades because that could affect the quality of the image with unwanted reflections.
When I asked about the oil the seller told me that:

"The presence of oil on the diaphragm blade does not in any way affect the quality of its operation. The Jupiter-9 lens is not equipped with an automatic diaphragm (jumper), so there may be factory oil on the aperture blades. During the manufacture of these lenses during the USSR period, oil was specially applied to the petals by the lens manufacturer for smooth aperture operation. Oil interferes with the operation of the diaphragm only in those lenses that are equipped with an automatic diaphragm"

I would like to know your opinion about this please

Thanks
 

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BrianS

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That level of oil is not going to be a problem. When there is a lot of oil, you may have a problem with haze building up on the surfaces of the glass on each side of the aperture. I do not see that here.

I've found that the aperture blades themselves in some USSR lenses, the Helios-103, can cause flare in the image. The metal of the blade had a shiny finish. I've not had this problem with the J-9. I went as far as taking the Helios-103 apart and using a Black Sharpie to reduce flare. I've never cleaned oil from an aperture because of flare.
 

Alex_N

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I would like to share something with you, it is about the lens I want to buy, I saw the photos of the product and I saw something like oil in the blades. I read that there shouldn't be oil in the blades because that could affect the quality of the image with unwanted reflections.
When I asked about the oil the seller told me that:

"The presence of oil on the diaphragm blade does not in any way affect the quality of its operation. The Jupiter-9 lens is not equipped with an automatic diaphragm (jumper), so there may be factory oil on the aperture blades. During the manufacture of these lenses during the USSR period, oil was specially applied to the petals by the lens manufacturer for smooth aperture operation. Oil interferes with the operation of the diaphragm only in those lenses that are equipped with an automatic diaphragm"

I would like to know your opinion about this please

Thanks
At least eight versions of this lens were released, I advise you to look for those that were made at the KMZ for SLR cameras.


Those which were made at the "Arsenal" or "Lytkarino" very often have poor quality.
 
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