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PS editing/ colour space issues

Discussion in 'Photoshop & Editing Chat Forum' started by GinaAnderson, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. GinaAnderson

    GinaAnderson Member

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    Hello all,

    I am noticing that when I save photos as jpgs they are looking quite different to the edited raw file in PS - much duller and a lot of grey in skin tones. A bit of research tells me that this could be due to the colour space I am using so I have changed the colour space in PS to Adobe RGB.

    Do I now need to do the same on my camera, or can I make it so that the colour space applies to photos I've taken previously?

    Hope this isn't a dumb question but I am getting very sick of oversaturating in PS, in the hope that the colours look about right when I save them!

    (guess I have a lot of work to do learning about colour management... I am a bit overwhelmed by all the info/jargon out there.)

    Example greyish photo attached!
    IMG_2467.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2017
  2. GinaAnderson

    GinaAnderson Member

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    PS. I shoot raw. So does that mean that there is no colour profile assigned? (and therefore changing the setting in PS is all I need to do?)
     
  3. Agiledogs

    Agiledogs Always on

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    For colour space you always want to use the widest gamut possible as it is easier for colors to render down as opposed to up. I have my cameras shoot in adobeRGB or ProPhoto if available and have that set for my PS work environment. When I export images from my workflow I export them in sRGB is often times it is the only space available for web use or for print (though some labs have expanded on this). Shooting RAW does apply color profiling, but does not apply in camera settings unless configured to do so in the PS camera profile settings.

    I would also recommend that first you look into ensuring your monitor is properly calibrated using something like xRite or data color which have a variety of packages and do a great job of adjusting your monitor.

    Second if using a laptop calibration can be difficult as the angle of view to the screen changes each time you open it. With laptop you would benefit from an external monitor for editing. Also examine your monitors ability to display color. Some will have a specification like can display 98% of adobe gamut. Having something like that will also help render colors more accurately.

    [​IMG]

    In this chart you can see the scale differece between the main color profiles. There are others and they fall within the same graphs. Most print places and all monitors typical display sRGB. It is better to scale down say from prophoto to sRGB or AdobeRGB to dRGB than to scale up from sRGB to a wider space. Scaling down will use great builtin algorithms to find the best matching color, scaling up will not use such.

    Always tune your profile for your desired medium...for print, learn about icc profiles and both using factory profiles and creating your own if you self print. I makes a huge difference on image quality.

    http://www.gballard.net/psd/cmstheory.html provides great information to learn about color space and color profilng.
     
    Andy 0 likes this.
  4. oldgeezer

    oldgeezer Always on Premium Member

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    Try going into EDIT-Colour settings to get this box below and make sure you have the check box unchecked where the red circle is.

    Colour-Settings.jpg
     
  5. rebel06

    rebel06 Without a cause Moderator

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    Hi Gina .. . when posting an image post it Full Size instead of thumbnail so we can see it better .. . I have done this one for you.
    Paul
     
  6. GinaAnderson

    GinaAnderson Member

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    Thanks all for the tips, I will spend the rest of the morning trying to get my head around them! :)
     
  7. MikeB

    MikeB Always on Premium Member

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    Color management is a complex issue in photography. If you just want to take a picture and then print or post the picture, the simplest way is to set the camera to sRGB and only take JPEGs. I only shoot raw, but anything beyond sRGB requires additional work.

    If the image was saved as Adobe RGB then the problem is that many applications are unable to properly display the image, save a copy as sRGB. If your display device is not properly calibrated for contrast, brightness and color, then what you see on your display will be different than how other people see it - calibrate your display.

    There are Web sites available that can help you set up your display by eye but they are limited. The best way to calibrate a display is with device designed for that purpose, as mentioned above.

    Why would anyone want to go beyond sRGB? It is a limited color space, reproducing about a third of all of the colors we can actually see. However, it remains the standard for the internet (since 1996) and 99% of all desktop displays are not capable of even showing all of those colors. On the other hand, if you are using a high quality inkjet printer (owned or commercial) then you can print well beyond sRGB.

    Color is the most important thing for most photographers while managing color is the least understood topic.
     
    Agiledogs likes this.
  8. DonS

    DonS Stuck in Toronto Moderator

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    My understand of it is that raw files have no colour space and you can change it in software as you please.
     
  9. MikeB

    MikeB Always on Premium Member

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    This is true. In fact raw files do not encode color information which is why they are so much smaller than a TIFF RGB file. It is in the conversion process that the gray tones of the raw file are converted to color using an algorithm representing the color filter array (demosaicing). The latter is the reason each sensor requires a different raw file structure as each sensor has a color filter array designed specifically for the color capture characteristics of that sensor. It is why Adobe and Canon have to update their software to accommodate each new sensor.
     
  10. DonS

    DonS Stuck in Toronto Moderator

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    I, and a bunch of other people one day on Facebook and twitter tried to correct a famous professional photographer (first name is a large land mammal with antlers and he likes to photograph military airplanes, without naming him) to this effect. He said you needed "a very expensive process" to change the colour space of a raw file but he never elaborated on it. Everyone else was consistent on their answers. I just looked up the original, I did name him: https://www.photography-forum.org/threads/colour-space-and-raw-files.131824/
     
  11. Agiledogs

    Agiledogs Always on

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    While the camera does not care about color space whens hooting RAW you computer and processing software does care...even when displaying RAW files. It assigns the color space passed from the camera settings to display it through LR, PS GIMP or any other editor.
     
  12. DonS

    DonS Stuck in Toronto Moderator

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    Yes, it will display based on the selected colour space but you can just switch colour spaces.
     
  13. Agiledogs

    Agiledogs Always on

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    But only with the raw file...once converted to psd for working you can convert from adobe or prophoto to sRGB easily but not the other way as it can cause problems as the expanded colors would not be rendered correctly. Some have also found that loosing some of the colors also results in a more plastic looking image. I have not seen this personally but I ma sure it is possible.
     
  14. MikeB

    MikeB Always on Premium Member

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    Fortunately, one does not need to be an expert with the nerdy stuff to be an excellent photographer. I did review the discussion and again just shook my head at the misunderstanding that he glibly spouts. If you are shooting JPEG then his statement about using Adobe RGB as a larger color space is correct but he does seem to believe that raw files (he shoots raw at 14-bit) are influenced by the color space you choose for in-camera JPEGs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
    DonS likes this.
  15. DonS

    DonS Stuck in Toronto Moderator

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    That is true. He does take some good photos. I went looking for the original post and cannot find it. He is friends with Scott Kelby so I assume he was corrected in a quiet manner.
     
  16. GinaAnderson

    GinaAnderson Member

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    Hi all, as you know I am no expert so still floundering a bit on this one. I have switched my camera and PS both to adobe RGB and it seems to have helped. Not sure I have it 100% nailed yet!
     
  17. MikeB

    MikeB Always on Premium Member

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    Adobe RGB is a great color space to work with if you are doing your own printing with a printer that exceeds the sRGB color space. If however you need to return to sRGB then you lose that advantage.

    If you are going to be editing the photos in PS, then it is best to use ProPhoto RGB. Why? Any edits that alter hue, saturation, or brightness can push image data from comfortably within a more limited color space to outside of it, which means it will be clipped. You are not given the opportunity to rescue it and not informed of the loss. Working in a large color space, such as ProPhoto RGB, ensures that there is no clipping. You can then assess the image after the edits to confirm that all data is within a targeted color space and adjust those colors that don't or choose a conversion process that works best for that image.

    I like the recommendation for shooting in both raw and AdobeRGB (or sRGB) for a beginner as you will immediately have a JPEG processed in-camera and have a raw file to edit as your editing skills improve.
     
  18. GinaAnderson

    GinaAnderson Member

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    I am shooting only in raw. So i guess i didn't actually need to change any settings on my camera :)
     
  19. MikeB

    MikeB Always on Premium Member

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    When you are shooting raw, the settings in the camera are passed on to the raw converter as tags or notes. Some applications apply them others ignore them. The color space designation is ignored. There are a couple of in-camera settings that do actually affect raw images in that they affect how the image is exposed, such as Canon's Highlight Tone Priority setting.
     

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