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Real Estate Lens Decisions.

the voyager

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The Canon 11-24 f4 has been touted as the ultra luxury real estate lens.

But what about tilt shift?

I keep reading tilt shifts are just not that important in the digital age?

2 ways around tilt shift??

1. The Canon or any other lens that goes to at least 14mm (or 11mm) can shot so wide and create powerful enough images that you simply crop in (whilst keeping your camera dead level)
2. You simply do your post production and fix straight lines... which of course just means more time..

(I actually think exterior shots of leaning houses look bigger and more powerful (no interior though).

Any other lenses that can match the Canon 11-24 f4 for around £1000???

I also read if solely for real estate no need to worry about low f stops, f4 is enough..
 

Mike Singh

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It shouldn’t take that long for “Auto Correct “ perspective to do its thing.
 

Phill104

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Are you using a crop body? If so the 10-22 is a cheap lens that does a great job. A local tog near me uses on for the same task after I lent him mine to test. He loves it, especially as it is quite cheap compared to the 11-24. If you are full frame then the 16-35 F4 works really well. Not sure you need to go as wide as 11mm as it presents its own challenges.

I also know a chap who uses tilt shift lenses, the silly prices 17mm and the 24mm which is not too bad used. He also loves them but did say they took a lot of getting used to. I have played with them and understand exactly what he means. I would think they will slow you down a bit which depending on your needs could be a good or a bad thing.
 
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the voyager

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Are you using a crop body? If so the 10-22 is a cheap lens that does a great job. A local tog near me uses on for the same task after I lent him mine to test. He loves it, especially as it is quite cheap compared to the 11-24. If you are full frame then the 16-35 F4 works really well. Not sure you need to go as wide as 11mm as it presents its own challenges.

I also know a chap who uses tilt shift lenses, the silly prices 17mm and the 24mm which is not too bad used. He also loves them but did say they took a lot of getting used to. I have played with them and understand exactly what he means. I would think they will slow you down a bit which depending on your needs could be a good or a bad thing.
I am on Canon 5dmk3... full frame...

What would the the problems of 11mm be? Bending at the edges?
 

Phill104

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I am on Canon 5dmk3... full frame...

What would the the problems of 11mm be? Bending at the edges?
Distortion is one thing, but it also results in a lot being showed that you may not wish to be seen. Vents, mess, your own reflection etc wide is good but it does mean you have to look out for a lot more. It also can look unnatural and people do seem to pick up on this, at least that is what my friend tells me. We have had quite a few chats about it over a few pints. Back in the film days I was a student and estate agents had to hire togs so I did a bit myself for beer tokens back then. It is when I first met this chap and he has been doing it ever since as well as lots of other photographic work so he knows his stuff, far more than I do for this genre.
 

Roger S

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Minor Problem

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I'm not convinced that 22mp is enough to just crop in and throw away half in the pixels and still get great results? I try and avoid that with more than twice that number of pixels to play with. I'm also not sure you'd need an ultra wide that expensive if you dont go the tilt shift route. The Tamron 15-30 is just about the finest ultra wide out there at £900 ish and is considerably better than my Nikon 14-24 which is already stunning.
 

the voyager

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I'm not convinced that 22mp is enough to just crop in and throw away half in the pixels and still get great results? I try and avoid that with more than twice that number of pixels to play with. I'm also not sure you'd need an ultra wide that expensive if you dont go the tilt shift route. The Tamron 15-30 is just about the finest ultra wide out there at £900 ish and is considerably better than my Nikon 14-24 which is already stunning.
Hi can you explain this? I don't understand your point? You saying a 22mp body is not good enough to crop an ultra wide shot?
 

DonS

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I'm not convinced that 22mp is enough to just crop in and throw away half in the pixels and still get great results? I try and avoid that with more than twice that number of pixels to play with. I'm also not sure you'd need an ultra wide that expensive if you dont go the tilt shift route. The Tamron 15-30 is just about the finest ultra wide out there at £900 ish and is considerably better than my Nikon 14-24 which is already stunning.
A 10 mp camera not that many years ago would have produced acceptable results. I am sure he will be fine, with a crop.
 

Minor Problem

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Hi can you explain this? I don't understand your point? You saying a 22mp body is not good enough to crop an ultra wide shot?
I'm saying that taking a 22mp image and throwing away half of it isn't conducive to achieving a high quality result.

A 10 mp camera not that many years ago would have produced acceptable results. I am sure he will be fine, with a crop.
How many of us use a 10mp camera happily these days (apart from Roger!)?
 

the voyager

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I'm saying that taking a 22mp image and throwing away half of it isn't conducive to achieving a high quality result.



How many of us use a 10mp camera happily these days (apart from Roger!)?
So what you mean is don't go for the crop technique??? i.e ultra wide angle lens and crop in post?
 

the voyager

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For others that shoot interiors, what is your preferred lens?

16mm or there about? 24mm???

And do most of you stay away from 'ultra wide' like 11mm and 12mm etc, and stick to 'wide' 16mm to 24mm?
 

DonS

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How many of us use a 10mp camera happily these days (apart from Roger!)?
That is not my point. I am saying you can get perfectly acceptable photos, because we all did when all there was available were 10 mp cameras. Like when someone comes and asks about printing large. Large prints always happened. Can they all look better now? Yes, you can do more, but for the OPs purpose I think they will be fine.
 

DonS

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So what you mean is don't go for the crop technique??? i.e ultra wide angle lens and crop in post?
I think you will be fine, but always try to get it right in camera. If you are going to remove distortion in post, then you will be cropping a bit, most likely, but do not go crazy on the crops, there is a reason to use the wide angle.
 

the voyager

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I think you will be fine, but always try to get it right in camera. If you are going to remove distortion in post, then you will be cropping a bit, most likely, but do not go crazy on the crops, there is a reason to use the wide angle.
Yes by right in camera you mean having the camera level on all planes... totally flat, no convergence..

I have done a lot of reading, around 16mm to 24mm seems to be the preferred size.. anything wider and you risk making distant objects look really small... Does this ring true with people?
 

DonS

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Yes by right in camera you mean having the camera level on all planes... totally flat, no convergence..

I have done a lot of reading, around 16mm to 24mm seems to be the preferred size.. anything wider and you risk making distant objects look really small... Does this ring true with people?
By right in camera, I meant as much as possible on all accounts (exposure, wb, framing of subject, etc).

As far as making things look small, yes, that sounds about right, but since no room should be that big it should not be much of a problem, but experiment in your own house. Take some photos to sell it.
 

Trevor Gale

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I have taken advantage of the features of tilt & shift lenses for a long time now, right from the time I started to work more seriously and with medium-format. My first tilt & shift lens was for my Mamiya 645 Pro kit when at that time I was working exclusively with film, and processing + printing everything in my own darkroom. However, even in the darkroom, with its supposedly minimal 'post-processing' possibilities, it was still an option to do some 'tilt correction' from a negative taken using a wide-angle lens by tilting the print-paper plane (provided one used a sufficiently small enlarger lens aperture to avoid loss of focus towards one edge or the other). However, even for some prints which I enlarged for display in photo exhibitions I've had - messing around with things in the darkroom made for more risks of losing many aspects of the image which I captured that were the very core of what I wanted to convey.

I found that for many compositions, not only architecture bit also some dramatic landscape scenes, it was better and easier by far to work with what I could see when shooting and made life far more comfortable in the darkroom. Even where a degree of vignetting enters the scene, this is easily dealt with by a little selective dodging by hand during the printing process.

Once I went into digital working, ending up with the Canon EOS 5DvIII kit, I looked again at the tradeoffs between using a wide-angle lens and using a tilt &shift lens (which I loaned for the purpose). Here I found that the ability to see exactly what I was making with the composition using the tilt & shift lens made the shooting experience much more acceptable than taking the shots using the wide-angle. I'll naturally go along with the thoughts of many who say that in the days of 10Mpx there were great images made, but these days when 22.3Mpx is more commonly found then I would suggest that equally-great images are being made - the number of megapixels is not the only indicator of a great image, just as resolution the only property of image quality.
Also, again just as in the darkroom, I have come to find that if I go through all the corrections from a wide-angle image to achieve what the tilt & shift would have given me, I lose out (or forget!) on some of what made the image so attractive to my eyes in the first place. In addition, the correction process by its very nature introduces distortion into the image which one never intended and in no way could foresee. Yes, I know there are arguments along the lines of "but there's loads more resolution than you need, it's the way you're working", etc., but this happens to be my experience over quite a lot of years, and it was other peoples. thoughts that ere requested.
Since that time (going into digital with the Canons) I have (for similar reasons to those which made me go into medium-format from 35mm Minolta) decided to enter the realm of 'medium-format' digital, i.e. medium-format camera body and the rest (medium-format is usually comprised out of separate items such as the winder, the handle, the lens, the body, the film-back or sensor housing). I have found that with the Phase One offerings and have chosen the kit that's compatible with the Mamiya 645 AFD, where I can choose to shoot film if I wish (by exchanging 'film-back') or to shoot digital (again by changing to digital back). Amongst the lenses I have since purchased to make up this kit I also have some of my existing lenses from my older 645 Pro kit - these lack the autofocus and 'intelligent data' interfaces with the body but are nevertheless completely compatible - and so is the case with the Tilt & Shift lens I have.

I have yet to amass sufficient experience using this combination, but I am already getting the idea that despite having to use manual focussing and to use manual exposure timing, I am going to use the tilt & shift lens in much the same way as I do with the Canons (digital) and with the older medium-format kit (Mamiya 645 Pro's) - and for the same reasons.

Quality of image - overall - including the concept right from thought, composition, exposure to printed output - this is in my opinion what the deciding factors are when comparing wide-angle with tile & shift lens usage.
 

Stew

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I haven't read all the above posts, so excuse me if I miss some points.

If you're doing real estate professionally I think you need to be led somewhat by your clients expectations.
High end homes and commercial real estate customers probably have different expectations than the majority of domestic home sellers (which your first post suggests you might be dealing with).
It's easy to spend a lot of time and money on the work (especially if you enjoy it) and give much more than your clients really need. At times when you're really busy, you might regret having to spend a lot of time in the process.

After many years of using a Sigma 10-20 (for low to middle market properties), and often having to spend a lot of time time in post work, I've switched to a smaller camera (M4/3) with 24mm equivalent lens for the bulk of shots. I can take more shots, but that's sometimes more appealing to clients. If pushed, I can use the other gear or stitch multiple shots together for a panorama.

Being a penniless artist is no fun, especially if your buyers don't appreciate your work :)
 
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